ModernityBlog

“Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man’s character, give him power.” Abraham Lincoln

Ben White And Dr. Tamimi.

with 6 comments

A quick guest post from Anon:

“Ben White, having sought to ban Benny Morris is speaking alongside Azzam Tamimi giving A Brief History of Israel, on Tuesday, 09 February 2010, 19:00 – 21:00, Khalili Lecture Theatre, 10 Thornhaugh Street, London, WC1H 0XG at a SOAS Islamic Society event

Row over Cambridge University ‘hate speaker’

I take it Ben White is more happy with Tamimi’s plan to terrorise most Israeli Jews into leaving:

“First, there’s the demographics. The Israelis murder a father. But he has six to ten sons who replace him. Palestinians have large families, the Jews do not. And Israel is running out of Jews. They wanted to bring all the Jews of the world to Palestine. But no more Jews want to go to Palestine. Even the Russian Jews who came to Israel are still hoping to get to America. Now a large portion of Israelis have dual nationalities. Maybe a million Jews have dual Israeli-American citizenship. And a huge number of South African Jews hold two passports. They are ready to flee the Jewish state at any moment. They did not go there to live in constant conflict. For them, the Jewish state has become the most dangerous place in the world for a Jew. This will become increasingly apparent.

Essentialising negatively Zionism and Zionists, Israel and Israeli Jews (and this is one of his milder forays):

“is a constant reminder to the Palestinian people that the Zionist project is doomed. It’s a large—but cowardly—endeavor. The entire theft of a nation was a cowardly undertaking. What Jew can be proud of it? Already,” he adds, “we are witnessing the beginning of the end of the Zionist project.”

Never recognising any kind of Israel ever:

TIM SEBASTIAN: What – sit down with Hamas and Islamic Jihad?

DR AZZAM AL-TAMIMI: Yes, why not?

TIM SEBASTIAN: An organisation dedicated to their extinction – the Israelis should do that?

DR AZZAM AL-TAMIMI: They have to. They have no other option. When the British Government sat with the IRA and negotiated a peace agreement that’s the way forward.

This slogan ‘we don’t talk to terrorists’ is nonsense. They have to. They have to talk to … and the Palestinians are not terrorists. The Palestinians are the victims and if the Israelis want the way out they have no choice but to come and sit and talk without preconditions.

TIM SEBASTIAN: And you have no preconditions? Hamas has no preconditions? When I asked one of your spokesmen, Mahmoud al-Zahar a couple of years ago in Gaza and I asked him what it would take to stop the fighting he couldn’t give me a straight answer and in the end when I asked him a couple of times he said: I’m telling you frankly the attitude of Islam is not to accept a foreign state in this area. So he was ruling out the State of Israel in that area. You’re telling me he was wrong?

DR AZZAM AL-TAMIMI: No – if we want to stop the bloodshed …

TIM SEBASTIAN: Well you can you answer that question. No – this is important; this is an important issue here Dr al-Tamimi. What would it take to stop the fighting – the end of an Israeli State? Can Israel live side by side? Has Israel the right to exist?

DR AZZAM AL-TAMIMI: The current violence can be stopped without having to talk about the end of Israel.

TIM SEBASTIAN: Does Israel have the right to exist?

DR AZZAM AL-TAMIMI: No, as far as the Palestinian is concerned …

TIM SEBASTIAN: No?

DR AZZAM AL-TAMIMI: No – of course not. Of course not.

TIM SEBASTIAN: So what’s there to talk about then? Isn’t that a precondition?

DR AZZAM AL-TAMIMI: No, no, no ..

TIM SEBASTIAN: You said sit down with no preconditions. That’s a precondition …

DR AZZAM AL-TAMIMI: You see, that’s blackmail. That’s blackmail.

TIM SEBASTIAN: What’s blackmail?

DR AZZAM AL-TAMIMI: This is what the Israelis and the American[s] are doing …

TIM SEBASTIAN: What’s blackmail?

DR AZZAM AL-TAMIMI: They say to us: Unless you recognise Israel’s right to be in your house on your land we will not talk to you. We say to them …

TIM SEBASTIAN: I didn’t say that. I said ‘right to exist’:

DR AZZAM AL-TAMIMI: Israel has no right to exist in my home, on my father’s land – has no right to exist. It may exist despite me. It may exist because it is powerful, because it is supported by the Unites States of America but I will never as a Palestinian, I will never give legitimacy to a state that is created on land robbed from my father, from my grandfather and from my mother.

As for Morris’ ‘Muslim penetration into Europe’, Tamimi does want to Islamisize Europe, albeit peacefully, and spread the lie that ‘Zionists’ want to ‘destroy their (Muslims’) existence in Europe’, and that they with their ‘machinery’ persuaded the majority of Swiss to ban minarets. Not to mention his (racist?) generalisations about Europeans.

When Tamimi calls Freysinger the new Hitler, and adduces Zionist collaboration with Hitler, Freysinger politely reminds him that the first Palestinian national leader (and of Tamimi’s father the resistance fighter) was Hitler’s ally in the final solution:

I’d observe that, for all his calling Palestinian society ‘sick’ (and I don’t see that White does anything substantially different with regard to Zionism and Israeli Jewish society), Morris does at least accept the principle of two states, unlike Tamini:

“Two states is the only solution with an element of justice,” Morris says. “But there are two other realistic solutions — one is that the Jews will kick out all the Arabs across the river, and the other is that the Arabs will throw the Jews into the sea. I’m not sure one of them won’t happen.”

That is also assumed in the other part to the quotation used by White but conspicuously omitted:

“True. But when one has to deal with a serial killer, it’s not so important to discover why he became a serial killer. What’s important is to imprison the murderer or to execute him.”

Explain the image: Who is the serial killer in the analogy?

What does that mean? What should we do tomorrow morning?

“We have to try to heal the Palestinians. Maybe over the years the establishment of a Palestinian state will help in the healing process. But in the meantime, until the medicine is found, they have to be contained so that they will not succeed in murdering us.”

To fence them in? To place them under closure?

“Something like a cage has to be built for them. I know that sounds terrible. It is really cruel. But there is no choice. There is a wild animal there that has to be locked up in one way or another.”

“The barbarians who want to take our lives. The people the Palestinian society sends to carry out the terrorist attacks, and in some way the Palestinian society itself as well. At the moment, that society is in the state of being a serial killer. It is a very sick society. It should be treated the way we treat individuals who are serial killers.”

What does that mean? What should we do tomorrow morning?

“We have to try to heal the Palestinians. Maybe over the years the establishment of a Palestinian state will help in the healing process. But in the meantime, until the medicine is found, they have to be contained so that they will not succeed in murdering us.”

To fence them in? To place them under closure?

“Something like a cage has to be built for them. I know that sounds terrible. It is really cruel. But there is no choice. There is a wild animal there that has to be locked up in one way or another.”

With regard to the second possibility adduced by Morris, Arabs’ driving Jews into the sea, Tamimi’s father was a fighter in the same national movement that sought the dispossession or elimination of Palestinian Jews. Just like the son does now.

Also, as a counterpoint to Morris’ ‘the Muslims are busy killing…in this part of the world’, Tamimi’s characterising Muslims as fighting imperialism, capitalism and America. That is also a form of essentialising Muslims and Islam as jihadis and jihad against America and the capitalist West (actually, of the 11 000 000 Muslims slain since 1948, most have been killed by other Muslims –you decide which is more accurate: Morris or Tamimi).

Update 1: A chunk of Morris’s statements were missing I have updated the post accordingly.

Update 2: Ops, it is Tuesday, not Monday. I have tidied up a few links, with the Hard Talk interview, you can see it for yourself.

Update 3: On JC’s blogs Richard Millett comments:

“As usual getting an appropriate answer was not so easy. But I asked Tamimi whether he wanted peace.

“I don’t want peace, I want justice,” he replied. Now isn’t that so telling. The whole world wants peace but Tamimi just wants justice.

Various parts of the political establishment suggest that we should talk to Hamas as it was democratically elected. But they make excuses for Hamas that even Hamas doesn’t ask for.

Tamimi is a self-declared representative of Hamas and if he says Hamas doesn’t want peace then who am I to argue with him? You heard it from the horses mouth.

Well, the whole world wants justice but it just isn’t going to happen.

Tamimi left the room to huge applause ringing in his ears while waving around the V sign to the room.”

Written by modernityblog

08/02/2010 at 18:21

6 Responses

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  1. There is a piece of quotation missing from “individuals who are serial killers.”

    What does that mean? What should we do tomorrow morning?

    “We have to try to heal the Palestinians. Maybe over the years the establishment of a Palestinian state will help in the healing process. But in the meantime, until the medicine is found, they have to be contained so that they will not succeed in murdering us.”

    To fence them in? To place them under closure?

    “Something like a cage has to be built for them. I know that sounds terrible. It is really cruel. But there is no choice. There is a wild animal there that has to be locked up in one way or another.”

    http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=380984

    Anon

    08/02/2010 at 19:59

  2. Thanks I have updated the post.

    Strangely, I profoundly disagree with Morris on these issues, but as a scholar he should be allowed the same freedom that Dr. Tamimi has.

    modernityblog

    08/02/2010 at 21:04

  3. Thanks, I’ll update.

    modernityblog

    10/02/2010 at 01:56

  4. A basic error he makes, it seems to me is re. Israel as the state of the Jewish people, which he says is unique.

    Actually no: Germany, Ireland etc are the state of all Irish and Germans round the world, BUT, although they have a right of return and to apply for citizenship, they are not all CITIZENS of Ireland and Germany.

    Likewise Saudi, as part of the hijaz, does define itself as preserving the holy places for Muslims around the world, and maintains Islamic law by forbidding Christians or Muslims to permanently settle or become citizens there. Only Muslims can, as dictated by Muhammed in the 7th century.

    Zkharya

    18/02/2010 at 18:44

  5. Zkharya,

    I didn’t know about White’s video, but if you’d like to critique it more I’ll gladly post your views as a guest post. They deserve a wider audience.

    I am a bit thick at the moment and not really into posting so I’d welcome your criticism of White’s remarks.

    modernity

    18/02/2010 at 21:01


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