ModernityBlog

“Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man’s character, give him power.” Abraham Lincoln

“Anti-Zionists” And The Whiff Of Racism.

with 4 comments

Non-Jewish “anti-Zionists” will frequently tell you that they have nothing against Jews. Indeed, some of their best friends are…

Or that they hold no prejudices against Jews.

Some of them even seem sincere when they say that, but the problem is when you follow the goings-on of these “non-Jewish anti-Zionists” you often come across the whiff of racism.

The Smell.

It’s not the strong poignant smell that you get from the Far Right. It is not that choking stench that you find on the Extreme Right, but it’s there all the same. For the most part, it is not vulgar or in your face, but you can detect it if you’re sensitive to the ebbs and flows of racism.

I suspect that part of the reason that it is not such an astringent smell, is that it comes from supposedly highly educated people. It is, more often than not, a product of the metropolitan elites, not vulgar thugs in the street, so is seen in a different light. Nevertheless, you can detect the racism, if you try. It leaves a bitter taste on the back of the throat.

Racist Websites.

So imagine my surprise when reading a left-wing blog, Bob from Brockley, that two racist websites were recommended by a “anti-Zionist”.

Firstly, this “anti-Zionist” suggests the Occupied Palestine blog, which I previously demonstrated had a love of neo-Nazi material.

Next, the “anti-Zionist” rates Alison Weir’s not too subtle racism, I dealt with it here.

It is an exceedingly discomforting sensation to think that you will be discussing politics with reasoned anti-racists, then to be confronted with repulsive anti-Jewish racism from one of the participants.

I think the worst part is, that this particular “anti-Zionist” is an adult, a political activist with over a decade’s experience and an Oxbridge graduate.

What Are They Thinking?

It does make you wonder what goes through the minds of “anti-Zionists” that they can read this racist material and it does not ring alarm bells with them.

None of this pricks their conscience, nothing seems to get through, their supposed opposition to racism is shown to be non-existent, their understanding of racism merely a set of words. All is a sham.

The Evidence.

Subsequently, the thread at Bob From Brockley containing the racism was bowdlerized, but here are the comments, which I received via Blogger’s email mechanism.

My apologies to readers for the links to racist material, but it is necessary as a public record:

“skidmarx has left a new comment on the post “Dumbshit Americans, the killing of Osama, and the …”:

As you would equate Americans’ happiness over B”L’s assassination with Arabs celebrating 9/11
Would I really? Thanks again for informing me what I think.

If it’s comparisons you want:
http://occupiedpalestine.wordpress.com/2010/12/09/if-americans-knew-what-every-american-needs-to-know-about-israelpalestine/

I suppose it’s better to be an ueberscmuck than to be classified as sub-human.

Oh, and that anonymous comment is one of mine.

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Posted by skidmarx to BobFromBrockley at 08 May, 2011 16:23″

You’ll notice reading the thread that the poster, Skidmarx, is oblivious to the racist motivation behind the organ libel.

“skidmarx has left a new comment on the post “Dumbshit Americans, the killing of Osama, and the …”:

They withdrew because Hezbollah forced them out. Only extreme wingnuts think that the 1982 invasion was a war of choice rather than one of necessity, I would link to a Haaretz article making this point, but as Israel’s defenders have such little ability to listen, what’s the point. The article does claim that the 2006 war war was necessary because of the three prisoners held by Hezbollah, but on that logic, the Palestinians have reason thousands of times over to continue with their struggle:
http://www.ifamericansknew.org/stats/prisoners.html

I’ve made this point about modernity before, but I notice you also have a “Free Gilad Shalit” banner on your site: what about the thousands of Palestinian prisoners, are they not human beings?
Here is someone who doesn’t think Palestinians are human:
http://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2011/05/the-cuny-disgrace
and here’s a funny story about a dumbshit American zionist:
http://scienceblogs.com/dispatches/2010/12/beware_of_sasquatch_israel.php

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Posted by skidmarx to BobFromBrockley at 08 May, 2011 15:47″

Readers could find similar glowing references to other questionable material from said “anti-Zionist” by using a search engine.

Please bear in mind, that at Bob From Brockley, the admin tends to remove this material, eventually. However, the poster concerned doesn’t receive any reprimand or warning, and tends to carry on regardless in other threads, which is the real problem.

Best use the Google cache or Way Back Machine to circumnavigate these feeble attempts at bowdlerization.

4 Responses

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  1. Thanks for this Mod. I was going to put one last comment at that post and then close it, but Blogger.com is out. More grease to WordPress’s elbow…

    I won’t repeat what I said elsewhere, but I did want to say something about the bowdlerizing bit. I did bowdlerize some comments, by Elf and you, in that I cut and pasted them, deleted them and then re-posted without the obscenities and personal attacks, much as I shared the sentiment behind your obscenities. But I (not very speedily, it’s true) deleted the links to Occ Pal and If Americans. I think this is not really bowdlerizing, and am not sure that it is a feeble attempt.

    It seems to me there is a paradox: either you advocate no platform in an absolute way, in which case you would not want to encourage someone to get past the no platform by using Wayback Machine, OR you see there is a value in seeing the racist links people post, in which case maybe deleting offensive comments (especially if there is no clickable link to an offensive site) is not the best course of action? Also, google cache and archive.org are another reason that the old no platform rule is problematic in the age of Web 2.0 (and/or Web 3.0).

    By the way, as far as I can tell, it is not possible to automatically ban a commenter using Blogger, so to ban someone you have to do it manually comment by comment (in which case it would still go into inbox of e-mail subscribers) or make all comments come via moderator approval, which I am absolutely not prepared to do. So, even if I wanted to ban a commenter, I would probably still opt for dealing with comments on a case by case basis. I’m not saying this to excuse or defend my approach – I think I made mistakes with that thread – but just so you know the full context.

    BobFromBrockley

    13/05/2011 at 11:06

  2. “I think this is not really bowdlerizing, and am not sure that it is a feeble attempt.”

    Shall I rehearse the arguments that you’ve ignored continually in our exchanges on this matter?

    Or shall I simply say that I don’t expect you to moderate every comment, I didn’t make that point and it’s bloody obvious that you couldn’t as you weren’t there.

    “Also, google cache and archive.org are another reason that the old no platform rule is problematic in the age of Web 2.0 (and/or Web 3.0).”

    The issue is NOT the ability to view in racist material, the Internet is full of it.

    The **point** is, when someone posts racist links what do you do ?

    1) pretend it didn’t happen
    2) change the thread to eradicate the information
    3) or reprimand the individual concerned, etc

    We have been here before, with Jenna Delich and most half way sensible people argued that she should have had a good talking to, “anti-Zionists” pretend it wasn’t an issue and brought up any number of excuses, which missed the point then as now.

    I’m not arguing about technology, I am arguing about people, and when they post racist links do you call them out on it or ignore it.

    At your blog it is ignored, the individual concerned received NO reprimand and learnt NO lessons.

    I made the point about Lewisham High Street, how you would hardly let someone get away with pushing Jew Watch or the Protocols, but you managed to ignore or miss that particular point.

    Again, I’m not talking about technology.

    I am talking about dealing with people when they bring up racist or highly questionable material, you reprimand them, try to get them to see the point, time after time, and if after years of explaining anti-racism to them they don’t understand, then politely tell them they are not welcome.

    That’s all.

    It ain’t complicated, it doesn’t require a dissertation to explain the issue, it is simple human to human communication:

    when someone is out of line, you explain it, if they persist you reprimand them, etc etc

    That hasn’t happened here, and the individual concerned will all probability post more racist material, oblivious of the issues and it is incumbent on anti racist to explain why such material is a problem and if he persists then warn him off.

    I don’t expect or want racist material pasted in when I’m discussing politics with socialists, I get extremely annoyed when it is ignored and treated as if it didn’t happen.

    The problem is further exacerbated when the individual concerned receives no reprimand, no warning, no virtual slap on the wrist, nada, and will presumably do it again.

    That’s not the way socialists or anti racists should deal with such problems, pretending they didn’t happen, excusing the individual concerned, changing the threads accordingly. That’s why I’m annoyed and I imagine any thinking socialists that followed the Jenna Delich debacle would be as well.

    modernityblog

    13/05/2011 at 11:49

  3. Yes, I should have reprimanded the commenter more. I thought I had. The comment came while I was out, and was one of 50+ comments that I had to read through when I got in that afternoon, very tired. I read them over a few hours, in between putting the kids to bed, eating my tea, etc, I hastily posted a link to a site showing why Alison Weir is a racist before I went to bed. The next morning, when I was a bit more alert, I said that the sites were dodgy and explained why Weir is a racist. But you are right, at that point I should have made a clear statement that posting such links is unacceptable. As I said earlier today, I would make that statement now, but Blogger.com seems to be dead!

    BobFromBrockley

    13/05/2011 at 12:29

  4. As I said, I didn’t hold it against you for not picking things up, when you’ve got to wade through masses of comments it is very hard and you miss them. I *do*, frequently, so I apply to you what I apply to myself.

    That’s not the issue.

    A simple comment at the end of the thread like, “if you post racist links into my comments boxes I will warn you once and then take measures” might have helped.

    Even *now*, you could retrospectively make that point, rather than brushing the evidence under the carpet.

    You made a lot of effort to remove the links, but little effort to see that it is a *methodology* I’m talking about: how do you deal with posters of racist links

    As I said, antiracists have been doing this for years and it shouldn’t be hard, it isn’t complex, you warned people, you remonstrate, as you would in real life, and if they persist you warn them off.

    I won’t be the only person who got tired of the pandering to Elf and Skidmarx, I imagine you’ve lost more posters than me, still you haven’t taken in the point that unless you explain things to these people in the very starkest of terms, bluntly, clearly, unambiguously, they don’t get it.

    They don’t process arguments, that’s not how they view the world, that’s not how their mind works, thus unless you are very very abrupt, forget liberal pleasantries they will take the piss again, but I explained that before as well😦

    modernityblog

    13/05/2011 at 12:52


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