Posts Tagged ‘The EDL’
Greater Surbiton has a superb post on Douglas Murray:
“Murray has spoken in defence of the English Defence League, a fascist, Islamophobic organisation of street thugs, and of Robert Spencer, proprietor of the anti-Muslim hate-site ‘Jihadwatch‘ (see the video at the start of this post). With some nuance, arguably, but unambiguously enough to be described as a ‘ringing defence’ by Spencer, who writes ‘At a recent conference… devoted to attempting to smear many anti-jihad forces, including the English Defense League and our own Stop Islamization of America, as neofascists, the extraordinarily eloquent English writer Douglas Murray offers this ringing defense (of me also, for which I am grateful) and denunciation of the Left’s guilt-by-association tactics.’ Murray praises Spencer as a ‘brilliant scholar’. Yet Spencer is a promoter of Srebrenica genocide denial. The EDL has also promoted Murray’s defence of it on their website.”
Years back, I probably said that a few times, but not afterwards with the subsequent decline of the StWC . The politics of the groups behind the StWC and their particular obsessions became more pronounced, which was incredibly disappointing and so were the resultant shortcomings.
A vibrant anti-war movement became the plaything of Toytown Trots and Tankies, it was driven into the ground and ordinary people driven away from politics as a result.
I doubt I will be agreeing with the StWC for a long time to come, but there must be action taken against anti-Muslim bigotry in the West.
If a picture is worth a thousand words, what does the photo below tell us about the EDL?
An EDL supporter giving a Nazi salute during the EDL’s demonstrations in Blackburn, 2nd April 2011:
Update 1: Any dim witted EDLers or their mates tempted to comment should first read my comments policy, and leave.
“TWO men were due to appear in court today accused of starting a fire at a mosque.
Simon Beech, aged 23, and Gareth Foster, aged 28, both from Stoke-on-Trent, have been charged with arson with intent to endanger life following the blaze at the mosque in Regent Road, Hanley on December 3.
Two other men arrested in connection with the incident have been released from their bail without charge.”
There is a suggestion on the web that at least one of them is connected to the English Defence League, I don’t know how true that is, but it seems probable.
Update 1: The Newstatesman has more on the Daily Star and the EDL.
Update 2: Andy looks at the Australian Defence League.
English Defence League members and supporters were in court this week after their attack on an SWP meeting at Tyneside Irish Centre, Newcastle, the Chronicle reports:
“TEN suspected right-wing extremists have appeared in court charged with violence.
The men, from across Tyneside, are accused of attacking doormen at the Tyneside Irish Centre during a rival political meeting.
The alleged attack is said to have happened on September 22 last year, when the left-wing Socialist Workers’ Party were meeting at the centre on Gallowgate, Newcastle city centre.
The SWP had called the meeting to discuss ways to counter far-right groups.
Rebecca Gibson, prosecuting, told Newcastle Magistrates Court that the 10 men, all believed to be members of the far-right English Defence League, allegedly gathered in nearby Rosie’s Bar.
She claimed they then descended on the Irish Centre, hurling abuse and attacking the doormen. “
The implied meaning of the photo was to connect the EDL with Israel, and so in turn to Jews.
It was to imply, in a not too subtle fashion, that Jews could be EDL thugs too, that was the message coming from the Guardian.
This was not the first time that I have run across this (implied) argument and when you consider the politics and history behind it then it doesn’t bear much scrutiny.
However, let us step back and be clear that the EDL leadership are made up of neo-Nazis and their allies.
We know this from circumstantial evidence, video footage, the publication of EDL events on neo-Nazi bulletin boards and above all from the statements of the one-time founder of the EDL, Paul Ray.
Ray admits that neo-Nazis took over the EDL in a video clip, here.
But perhaps we should consider some of the underlying issues and see what comes out.
In this form of arguing by innuendo, what we are meant to believe is that the neo-Nazis and their close associates, who actually run the EDL and decide policy, have suddenly taken a liking to Israelis, and by inference Jews.
Nothing could be further from the truth.
Clearly, an alternative line of reasoning is possible, that the neofascists within the EDL are lying about their motives.
It is a simpler and much more straightforward answer because otherwise we have to explain away why neo-Nazis would suddenly take a liking to Israelis, and Jews.
The problem being is that, neo-Nazis don’t like Jews, and in particular Israel as it is seen as the centre of Jewish power. That is something that all neo-Nazis fear the most. A central theme to Nazism is the notion that Jews control and manipulate events around the world from a central location, in this case Israel. [Warning: illustrative links to original Nazi propaganda, nasty racist material.]
It is hardly credible that entrenched neo-Nazis would suddenly wake up one-day and decide “Yes, we like Israelis.”
It seems incongruous, and ever so improbable.
Why people would advance these arguments in one way shape or form I can’t say, they are nonsensical because you have to assume a multiplicity of tenuous assumptions, that just don’t hang together naturally.
For example, firstly, you have to assume that neo-Nazis are honest about their motives. Secondly, that you can take their word as truthful. Thirdly, that they are sincere in their beliefs. Fourthly, that they have changed completely, to now liking Israelis and Jews.
Which is all rather ludicrous and contrary to the evidence.
Possibly the reason that this argument, by innuendo, is pushed is that those people advancing it are completely ill-informed about the nature of the EDL?
Or conceivably they know next to nothing of politics or history? Perhaps they haven’t thought about the issues? Maybe they are prisoners of their own prejudices, they want to believe the worst and so do.
I can’t say one way or the other but what disturbs me is that seemingly highly educated individuals would erroneously jumped to the conclusion that neo-Nazis have suddenly grown a love for all things Israeli, and Jews in particular.
It doesn’t make sense.
Surely, following Occam’s razor, the simpler answer is probably the correct one? And in the case of the EDL that means they are merely putting on a front and lying.
Of course, if you’re going to seriously argue the EDL really like Israelis and Jews then it is incumbent on you to provide some concrete evidence other than a flag.
Also you would have to explain how neo-Nazis have come to this conclusion and why. Above all, you would have to explain how neo-Nazis have dropped their all-consuming hatred of Jews and are now to be taken seriously.
It’s not too surprising that those most keen to advance these arguments are often themselves fierce critics of Israel, but to argue that the neo-Nazis in the EDL leadership should be taken at face value is naive at best.
Some gullible types might be taken in, but that doesn’t change the historical evidence nor the fact that the EDL leadership are neo-Nazis and their allies.
Again, so anyone trying to advance this argument would:
1) have to explain why the EDL leadership are not neo-Nazis
2) need to argue why those neo-Nazis are sincere and should be taken at their word
3) detail precisely why the EDL had taken this position, etc etc
I favour the simplest answer that the neo-Nazis in the EDL are lying and using this as a ploy to wrong foot their opponents.
Seriously, why should we believe the EDL?
What compelling reason is there that we should suspend our natural scepticism of political activists? If we would take the words of mainstream politicians with a pinch of salt, then surely the EDL’s and their assorted neo-Nazis’ deserve more than a handful?
Ultimately, the EDL are not what they say they are, and anyone semi-serious on these issues shouldn’t be fooled by them, and certainly not Guardian journalists.
PS: I am away for a few days, so if you haven’t commented before you’ll get stuck in the moderation queue for the first time, that’s how it works.
Please be patience .
Oh, and any would-be EDL supporters, please read my comments policy, twice.
Update 1: I thought it would make it easier to post the previous instalment, Imagine you’re a British neofascist, below:
This is going to be difficult, but imagine you are a British neofascist:
Imagine your frustration, you are a British neofascist and yet you can’t be open about it, you can’t express your admiration for David Irving or visit extreme right-wing Japanese groups without someone finding out.
In short you are in a pickle, you want your odious ideology to succeed but realise that most people would sooner eat their own vomit than join you in the Nazi salute.
Then you have a bright idea. Why not hide the extremes of your neofascist ideology? Why not wear a suit? Why not try to pick on the weakest in society as your heroes from Nazi Germany did, but do it with a twist?
Cunningly, as a devious British neofascist, you would not attack the ultimate target: Jews, directly
No, that wouldn’t work, so you have to think of another scheme.
Who to attack? And who to whip up hatred against? Who to use to build a street army?
Then in a flash it occurs to you, you’ll attack immigrants, but stop, that hasn’t been too successful for the BNP. What else can you do?
Ahh, attack Muslims, but not directly, not whilst wearing your suit.
Still you’re worried, as a devious British neofascist, that your political enemies with see through these tactics, and then it hits you, how to throw them off the scent?
Pretend that you like Jews. Get one of your knuckle headed friends to get an Israeli flag or two. And when you walk around wave it a lot. What a laugh!
Your mates think it is funny, they hate Jews with a passion, but it is a big wind-up and people don’t know how to react, many stop and think, others are fooled and some like your natural opponents in the liberal minded Guardian suddenly think that a bunch of neo-Nazi skinheads have converted to Zionism, how wrong could they be!
In fact, you think it is funny, that highly educated journalists don’t really understand modern neo-Nazism, letting you have your way. And once you’ve whipped up enough hatred against the Muslims then you can turn to other ethnic minorities, and eventually Jews.
Whilst all this is happening you, as a British neofascist, will have an able ally in the Guardian as they don’t much care for Jews or Israelis either. Plus the fact they haven’t worked out that you can’t stand Jews or liberals, but their gullibility blinds them to the fact that neofascists are frequently dishonest about their motives.
The Guardian types don’t know that you will do anything to get power, even tell fibs. But none of that will matter once you’ve grown from a proto-street army to an organised force, all of that will be too late.
But, as a British neofascist, you thank your lucky stars that the Guardian editorial staff seem to know next to nothing of history, care even less and have their own set of prejudices.
Then you trot off to polish your steel capped-boots, ponder a recruitment campaign at the Guardian, all with a smug grin on your face.”